As someone in a suburban environment planning to potentially evacuate cross-country in a TEOTWAWKI situation (vehicle preferred, will continue on foot if needed), I have put a lot of thought into what sort of rifle I would need to carry – or would prefer to carry – should I need to evacuate my family. Considerations in order of importance are 1) accuracy of the firearm; 2) weight of the firearm; 3) weight of the ammo, and; 4) where I expect to need the weapon.
Since I am far away from my retreat (about 1,300 miles) and may end up hoofing it along with my wife and children (yes, I know it’s a horrible backup plan – but the unacceptable alternatives are staying in the east or giving up), I may need to carry a lot in my Bug out Bag (BoB). So reducing rifle and ammunition weight is extremely important. This also comes into play with accuracy, since I don’t want to waste ammo. I’m not a bad shot, but the most accurate tool is called for.
Notice I did not consider bolt action rifles or the various .308 or .30-06 rifles. See numbers two and three above – ounces rather than pounds count in my planning for the worst. A different story for rifles at the retreat, but that’s for a different post. Looking at consideration number four, I’d expect to need the rifle in urban, wooded, and open country settings, or close to long range.
Also notice I did not mention cost in my three main factors. This was and is a hard factor to ignore. It would be nice to just say a less expensive (and heavier!) AK-47 with a more powerful (and heavier!) round would fit the bill and stop there. But the number one consideration is still there. This video helped make up my mind, especially the demonstration at 200 yards – the AR-15 comes out on top:
I am aware of the issues related to having a clean AR-15, which is why I plan on eventually purchasing a piston operated SIG516 with a 16″ or 20″ barrel. It’s an investment, but I have to have something lighter than the SKS I currently have.
Also see the five part video series (about 20 minutes each) comparing the AK-47 and the AR-15 by Nutnfancy, and the below 30 minute comparison of the two weapons:
Get an AK-74. Reliability of an AK, accuracy of an M16, 5.45 round of a 74 has MUCH more power than a 5.56 but is still very cheap and accurate. AK-74′s are also more controllable, and around the same price as an M16 or below. Get an AK-74! GET IT!!
From what I’ve read the AK-74 is a good platform. The 5.45mm is very similar in ballistics to the 5.56mm, but is not more powerful unless you’ve got a hot load. The thing I prefer about 5.56mm is that it is domestically produced, much more common, and much more likely to be available when 5.45mm may not always be.
As mentioned above, I really like the SIG 516 (still not out commercially), but likely will opt for the new/improved Mini-14.
So much of the stuff about AR/M4 reliability has been exaggerated. As for the various new piston driven designs I don’t like stuff that hasn’t been widely fielded/ proven.
I’ve hears some of the early and current cheap AR piston designs have decreased accuracy due to the action of the piston. Seems they just added a piston to an impingement system and called it good. But many of the newer, and much more expensive models, like the SIG516, seem to have done the research and corrected this, at least from what I’ve been able to find. Time will tell for sure.
One good reason I’d take a 5.56 over anything else is because of how common the ammo is. You’ll be much more likely to be able to find or trade for that than an East bloc caliber.
I’m also saving for a piston AR. I think the gas ARs are plenty reliable if you keep them clean, but I’m bad about that anyway and I’m sure in a Bug Out situation that might end up on the bottom of the list for awhile. I’ve been looking at LWRC. Everything I’ve read about their piston ARs is on the plus side. Except for the cost, and I wouldn’t expect the Sig to be cheap either, but I’ll have to check it out.
Well in a SHTF situation that would last more than just a couple of months. Reliability without the need to keep or have the means or time to clean the weapon takes the number one spot for me…. AK47 it is.
Btw,in a SHTF situation… if you’re going to fight your way thru an urban/city environment. Which is full of cover for those baddies who want to harm you. Which also includes vehicles to take cover from or shoot from within. Wouldn’t you want a round that can punch thru light cover like the 7.62x39mm? On the whole accuracy thing. I don’t know about you cowboys, but if I see someone 700m away I’m running the other direction and getting my family to safety.
Silverwolf,
These days I’m leaning towards the new model Mini-14; AK-like reliability, and now approaching AR accuracy. The first video above shows AK accuracy at 200 yards – pretty poor. I like being able to hit something at 300-400 yards with a carbine. If I want to try 700 yards, I’ll use the Mosin Nagant (though I haven’t tried mine at that range, yet). The AK is good for close quarters, I just prefer a little more reachout capability.
Dude, you based your decision in part (or whole) from that lame video on top? Play it again and watch it this time. The guy with the AK is SLAPPING the trigger with his finger. You squeeze. I can hit a man-sized silhouette with my AK using iron sights all day long. (I’ve literally done it). I would re-evaluate my decision.
Dennis,
I based it on much more than that video, which I’ve seen a few times. I’ve owned AKs and know what they can do. I’m sure you can hit stuff with your AK. When we’re talking 200 yards, I don’t buy it. At this point, I don’t think there is any debate left when discussing AK vs AR accuracy past 100 yards (unless you’re talking an ~$800 Krebs). I also prefer my SKS over AKs.
If money was no object, I’d get a Galil.
For those who are not familiar with this gun, it’s basically an AK with better sights, much lighter from what I understand, and shoots the 5.56/223 round. All without sacrificing the reliability.
Unless you have installed a good sight like an Aimpoint, Trijicon, or EoTech, you do not know what your AK can do. The factory sights are no good past 100 yards. I have fired many 3/4” fifty-yard groups with all but one of mine. I own six of them and that one came with a pitted (military) barrel. Most of my AKs I made up with military parts kits. With Trijicon Reflex II sights, I shoot eight-inch groups at 250 yards from prone. Aks can be better than four moa carbines. Many Garands and M1A Springfields cannot do better than three or four moa with surplus ammo. I use cheap Wolfe ammo in my AKs for the most part. I am sure I could home-load for accuracy and reduce group size, but what for? The AK is plenty for what it was designed to do.
I’ve had a few AKs, could not get 2″ at 50 yards with any of them and neither could anyone else. Could get less than 1″ on the same targets with a .22 with iffy sights, so it wasn’t the shooters.
Awhile back Nutnfancy had a video on getting a 1″ group at 100 yards with an Arsenal AK, which is totally understandable. But I just don’t see good groups at long distance with a WASR-10 or similar quality AKs.
From what I understand, the AK was designed for much closer quarters combat at full auto, not the longer shots. For that, or for in an urban setting at <75 yards, great.
Like all assault rifles, the AK was designed for 300 yard point shooting on semi auto and much longer area shooting on full auto. There are plenty of examples of the AK in combat killing men at 500 yards. Even 700 yard shooting at things like a 55 gallon drum have been videoed. If you can shoot a one-gallon bucket with a .44 magnum revolver free handed at 150 yards — and you can as I do it nearly every day — you can certainly hit a man at 300 with many AKs. As I posted, I shoot 8” groups from prone at 250 yards with my Aks all the time. They are certainly not tack drivers and some are more accurate than others, but they were designed for 300 yard killing in combat. Even submachine guns are usually good for 100 yards, some 200, on semi auto. Well respected authors have written about shooting 55 gallon drums at very long range (700 yards) with AKs and hitting most of the time.
I have a Hungabrian AKM underfolder and an Olympic AR-15 and if the spit hit the fan I would reach for the AK. The single most important factor would be reliability. My AK goes boom every time and has yet to jam in 27 years shooting mostly milsurp ammo. I get two hundred rounds(more or less) out of my AR before I can expect a jam or failure to go boom for some reason. I can clean my AK in 5 minutes in the dark blindfolded with a couple of passes of a brush and a spray of WD-40 and back in he game. It lies flat on my back with any of 100 straps or even a belt. My AR is a good gun but like you said it’s a tool. If someone is waiting in ambush from 500 yards away, I would be in trouble but 200 yards and closer, I am good to go!
STOP WATCHING SOMEONE ELSES VIDEOS!!!
I’ll run my Egyptian Maadi ALL DAY LONG up to 300 yards without breaking a sweat…
.223?….might as well start throwing stones at the badguys…do the math!
Granted..my Maadi is NOT “stock” as it rolled of the assembly line…
A couple hundred bucks of TactaKool upgrades…and I’m still NOT even close to half the cost of an AR!
I can hide this bitch in the snow, mud, sand…where ever is handy at the time…grab the charging handle and rock-n-roll some punks ass off!
AK all the way baby…MANY choices in ammo…subsonic, supersonic, bimetal, hollow points (NO problem)…corrosive, even ass kickin’ vest
piercing FMJ…whatever I can grab and start tossin’ down range…AND…I do NOT have to worry about maintance every couple hundred rounds!
Again…do the math…STOP watching someone ELSES videos…
I’m just sayin’…have a nice day…