Update 12 Dec 2011: Nutnfancy has a review of the BrassStacker mount for the Mosin Nagant. The BrassStacker is for long-eye relief scopes but allows for use of irons sights out to 100 yards. It’s much cheaper than going the bent bolt route, but I still prefer that method.
Update 30 Nov 2011: My brothers and I have purchased four JMeck see-through scope mounts. We plan to install at least a couple of these over the Christmas holiday season. Expect a post in January reviewing these mounts!
Original Post: So you’ve picked up a Mosin Nagant for an excellent price and the next step is to put a scope on this hi-powered rifle. The 7.62.54R falls in between the .308 (7.62×51) and the .30-06 (7.62×63), and is also similar to .303 British (7.7x56mmR). This rifle is perfect for hunting and long-range shooting – it’s practically begging to be scoped.
Unfortunately, the Mosin Nagant wasn’t really designed to be scoped and the options available will in most cases cost more than the rifle, even before purchasing the actual optic. Some of the solutions involve drilling and tapping the rifle, which can be difficult if you don’t have the right tools or are uncomfortable with potentially marring your firearm.
Overall there are two basic options; the “scout” mount, which is forward on the rifle and uses a long eye relief (LER) scope similar to those used on pistols, or the traditional location over the bolt using standard scopes. Both have their pros and cons.
Scout Mount
This is the easiest and least expensive of the two options, but means you must 1) remove the rear sight assembly and 2) use a LER scope (though this might be an acceptable option if you wear eyeglasses). These are both cons for me since I like having see-thru mounts that allow the use of iron sights as a backup, and I don’t really care for LER scopes. If you don’t care about either of those things, you’ve found your solution and are set.
There are a few options here. There are several systems where part of the rear sight is removed and a mounting system, usually with a weaver/picatinny rail, are installed (photos). This allows for standard mounts to be used and a wide variety of appropriate LER scopes.
Some have noted that if the entire rear sight assembly is removed on a 91/30 Mosin Nagant, 3/8” male dovetail grooves are revealed, the same as on modern .22 rifles and airguns. This means you can purchase some cheap but still quality 1” rings for about $10 and mount a scope. However, you’ll have to work to get the sight assembly removed:
[There are] two pins holding the sight base on, and they usually have a dab of solder on the base to dovetail. Gentle heating with a small torch to melt the solder, then tap the base forward and it comes right off.
Besides not needing to drill/tap any holes in your rifle, another pro is that you can retain the straight bolt.
S&K Scope Mounts offers a product for this (though the ordering method looks cumbersome), as does Tick Bite Supply.
Traditional Mount
Scopes mounted in the normal fashion are, to me and many others, simple easier to use. In most cases removing the scope allows the use of iron sights, another pro. However, to use a scope in this position the straight bolt on the Mosin Nagant must be bent. Right out of the gates that’s an expense.
There are some kits that include the bent bolt or part for modifying it. Personally I don’t have the tools required and don’t want to take a chance at mutilating my rifle. The most popular kit is from ATI; it includes a rail that must be drilled/tapped and part of a bolt that also requires machining. It doesn’t have very good reviews.
This brings up the bolt. The Mosin Nagant has a straight bolt that comes up right into the space a traditionally mounted scope would be. The only solution for a scope mounted there is to have the bolt bent or in someway modified for the same effect. From all I’ve read, one of the best sources for getting this done is a vendor who goes by “The Boltman.”
Another option is what the Soviets used for their sniper rifles, which is a left-side mounted (drilled/tapped) plate that comes up for the scope mount. This still requires the bent bolt.
There are a few companies that make custom mounts for the Mosin Nagant (again, need a bent bolt to use them).
- Jmeck – I like this one because it’s a see-thru mount and doesn’t require any drilling/tapping. Seems to have a good reputation on the various forums, and there is a You Tube video of the mount installation by a customer.
- Rock Solid Industries – This looks like a well made product that will fit the bill. They note it’s low profile, and offer bolts (higher cost than Boltman, however). Cannot use iron sights.
- Advanced Rifle Parts – This mount attaches to the rear sight assembly to provide the traditional scope placement, and also seems well made. Cannot use iron sights.
- Tick Bite Supply – Offers several options, including the scout type mounts described above, and a hideous tactical tri-rail mount that is just wrong for a Mosin Nagant.
Conclusion
The scout mount is much less expensive and is probably easier to implement, while the Jmeck mount seems to be what I’d prefer (though the mount would cost more than a new rifle and the bolt would need to be bent on top of that, all before purchasing the scope!).
Though I don’t care for the scout setup, I may consider it for my Mosin Nagant due to cost concerns. Perhaps I can get used to it and even prefer it for a high powered rifle, but it’ll be a few months before I need to decide anything.
Hello, I enjoyed your informative review on several of the various ways to scope a Mosin Nagant. The Mosin Nagant is a difficult rifle to scope due to the bolt handle location and its split rear receiver design. If the bolt and receiver were designed more like a Mauser scope mounting would be much easier. As well many owners of Mosin Nagants don’t want to pemanently alter their rifles to mount a scope. It took a great deal of time and testing to come up with my “band mounting” design. Thank you for including it in your review.
Jmeck
Jmeck,
No problem, I think you have the best solution for those who don’t want to lose use of iron sights and who don’t want to drill/tap their rifle. Later this year I’ll likely purchase one of your mounts.
i made a massive mistake,i bought a tri-rail scope mount from tickbite supply,no way to load chargers into rifle,and scope rear eye piece is still to far away from eye to use scope to full advantage.i must have been dumb for buying that piece of junk.i will design my own scope mount,if i must,but otherwise dont make the same mistake i did.i built my own custom bent sniper bolt for my mosin nagant 30degree sweepback and 5 degree kickout on bolt knob,it was easy.please send any help if a good scope mount is out there if not i will be going to the drafting board and design my own.
I opted to remove the rear sight and fix a ncstar 1913 to it, but have not yet settled on a scope. Unfortunately my disposible income is almost non existant being military married with a kid and a house. bills before hobbies you know. But all the scopes i have looked at for “Bargain Prices” have horrible reviews, They all tend to lose their zero after very few rounds. Could you suggest a modestly priced reliable LER scope?
I just wanted to say thanks. This info was very helpful and accurate.
vaksal How did you build your own bolt? You mention it was easy, got any details for us?
Thanks,
Jeremy
@AlwaysReady, I had a hard time finding a LER scope for my Mossberg 500 rifled slug barrel (it uses a cantilever so I needed a LER scope). I finally found one that I liked at Bass Pro Shops it’s a Redhead shotgun scope. I picked it up for $100 when it was on sale, I think it’s $150 regular price. I am gonna buy another one next time I see it on sale for my Nagant (I have a 91/30), I am not sure how it will do with the rifle but if my “slug gun” can predict how well it will do it should be perfect. Did I mention that the shotgun slugs I use are about 2x more powerful than the Nagant’s 7.62x54R cartrige? I use Winchester Supreme Platinum 395g slugs, have put several hundred rounds through it and only seem to need a shot or to to “re-zero” the gun after I pull it out for hunting season each year. You might want to take a look at the redhead scopes, they seem to be well made (mine has gone through 3 hunting seasons so far) and are much more reasonably priced than Nikon or other brands. Hope that helps you a bit.
Let us know what you do with your Nagant, I would really like to put a scope on mine. I am also planning on buying a synthetic monte-carlo stock to replace the wood one.
S&K seem to be the best design from what I have seen out there. Scout set-up also seems to make the rifle much more compact and practical, just don’t over-scope it with some rediculous mega scope. Check out surplusrifle.com for some other alternatives and ideas on these rifles.
OK I have installed the ati Monte Carlo stock, the tick bite supply scout mount, and a bi-pod and conventional sling for my 91/30, oh and also a ncstar ler scout scope. I will briefly review some of these ideas as well as put my 2 cents in. The ATI stock first, installs easily but required a lot of sanding to get it right and fully floated at the barrel. Overall I’m happy with it (nothing worthwhile is easy lol). Second, the tick bite supply scout mount. Installed easily but, one of the screws was no good and I cant see a way to make it so it can’t move inside the rear site well. Third, a name brand LER scope most times costs more than a run of the mill Nikon rifle scope and most LER scopes don’t offer a lot of magnification most I found were 2-7×32. So MY opinion is get the stock, bi-pod, and sling and shoot it iron sites so long as it’s pheazable (I’m sure I spelled that wrong lol)Mosin’s have a 2000 meter ladder sight and with 2-7×32 I can see that far with my naked eye and is what I’m gonna do shoot it open sights but I do have 20/20 vision. Most people won’t have to shoot more than 300yards which is easily doable with the naked eye. If you’re gonna really need the scope have it drilled.
I have mosin nagant m44 carbine.Question is are there a dovetail mount under rear sight like in 91/30 model have?I have ler scope in it and i like to cange mounting for it to look little more cleaner than useing scout mount set-up. Thank you. Mike
Let me start off by saying great site.I have a mosin 91/30.I bought the ATI stock, bent-bolt conversion, and rear scope mount. Looks sweet.Took it to the range and the first few rounds were on the money.By the 6th round it was off paper.You could actually see the last 6 inches of the barrel twisting,rolling,throwing the rounds wayyy left.I was told that the barrels weren’t heat treated.My buddy had the same problem.Has anyone else had this problem?If so,does anybody have a remedy.I’m wondering if I took 6 to 8 inches off the barrel if that would solve it.Any help would be appreciated.
Hello! I have used several different types of scope mounts from the least expensive $8-$14 aluminum weaver rail mount to trying to drill it and still it will not support the recoil. The best thing is the S & K assembly because it offers a steel block and attachment base with steel screws. If you go with the weaver rail it is made of aluminum, but the main concern is having the actual mount be made of steel metal to not only withstand the recoil, but also the quick heat build up of the chamber and barrel.
A gunsmith told me that as long as the parts are made of steel and use blue locktite and allow it to dry or cure then the only thing that is left is to correctly set the scope on the mount and either bore sight the scope if you know how or you go the traditional method of zeroing the scope either single shot or as they do in the military and do 3 round shots to see the average to make the corrections. I would go with the one shot correct and adjust then refire and allow time between shots for the barrel to cool a little.
From what I have seen and read in the reviews the majority of the people who decide to scope a ex military weapon fail to do their research and those who review write poor in adequate reviews like its good, or great, instead of I used this, after shooting i found this, this is what I did to correct or simply no information.
If you look at the history of this weapon it was never meant to be scoped, and eventualy it was with the PU scope mount and still the snipers had to retighten the bolts and screws. If you take the time to install it and use the correct materials allowing the mount to essential become part of the weapon you will see some better significant results. Once I have completed the installation of the S & K scope mount (scout set up) I will write a much better detailed review whether positive or negative.
I hope that this provides some insight on the scope mounting of this weapon.
Follow up as promised!
I have purchased the S & K Manufacturing Scope Mount Part number 4465 (from Cheaperthandirt.com for $90.00 and got it the next day) and I am here to say that it will hold recoil from this rifle; however, I would like to point out that this scope mount is made of steel as indicated by the manfacuturer and you will need to use blue lock tite to make sure that the setting are not affected by recoil.
I have placed 25 rounds of 147 gr surplus grade ammo through the weapon and no change in the zero settings. Because the scope mount is made of metal it will make the rifle a little heavier in a good way because it helps with the recoil and to say the least that it will become part of the rifle with the option to remove if need be.
Carlos- what scope are you using?
I used a pistol scope made by NCStar 2-7x30mm which at 4x provides good field of view and withstands the recoil of this rifle. I have fired over 80 rounds with this scope mount on the rifle prior to using the S & K Scope Mount. I purchased it from M1 Surplus.com in a package deal using the aluminum cheap mount with rings and scope. I know that alot of people don’t like them, but then again if its not properly installed it will not work or zero correctly. Its decent for this type of project and I have used a similar scope but for a rifle for a Norinco dust cover scope mount which works really good which is a 4x32mm made by BSA also purchaes at M1. I hope this information help you out some.
Good luck!
I purchased and installed the Advanced Rifle Parts scope. It is expensive… but easier to install than the JMeck… also no in-letting is needed. A sniper bolt will work fine. Total cost… including bolt and mount was $155.
Gmatt,
I noticed that mount cost $30 more than JMeck’s and doesn’t allow for use of iron sights, in fact the rear sight has to be removed. I personally favor having irons as backup.
Unfortunately, the only option is to find a traditional side mount like for the PU scope which still allows you the room to utilize the iron sights, but keep in mind that you go back to having the receiver tapped and you have to get a replica of the side mount which will set you back with 4x power scope about $150 – $200 not to include the tapping of the receiver unless you do it yourself. Don’t forget to alter the bolt as well as you will have to modify it too to accomodate this type of set up.
More or less its a give or take type of situation if you really look at it. There’s “the boltman” who will modify your bolt for $50 or there’s someone else on ebay.com who will modify the bolt only and turn it down and will not require the in letting or alterting the stock to adjust for the bolts space against the stock. He’s fee is $35 and you turn in the bolt lever only and he returns it back to you in a few days and is a gunsmith with 100% customer satisfaction and reenforced it 3 times over for strength, but I have not explored this option since I went with the S & K scope mount it is installed in lew of the rear sights.
Here’s the ebay vendor I mentioned:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mosin-Nagant-Bent-Bolt-Conversion-Service-/250833575428?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a66d89e04
I hope this information is helpful for you.
Hello!
I have just purchased a bent bolt body for my Mosin Nagant for $70 includes finished product, shipping, and handling. The turn around time is 1 week. So if any one is intereted I have included a link below. I hope this helps you out if you are looking for an avenue to modify your bolt or overall your rifle.
http://www.ecrater.com/p/11412208/mosin-nagant-bent-sniper-bolt#
He also does the bolt bending as well via ebay for $32 and here’s the link:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/items/mosin%20nagant%20bolt?_dmd=1&_sop=12
Hey what kind of stock is on your site here? I’ve been looking for stocks but all I can find is the ati.
A company, accumounts.com has the PE and PU Russian type scope mounts. there even a PE see through mount with 1 inch rings. These are not cheap but are designed for the Mosin Nagant. I have a PU mount on one my rifles and find it to be a good choice. They also have adapter shims to fit to “normal” type scopes. I personally pre a maximun 6X scope on the Mosin but that’s your choice. The standard Mosin stock is my choice for these rifles 91/30 or M44. The fore stock and hand guard are the way they are for a reason, to protect you from a hot barrel. Also, I find a little polishing of the trigger contact surfaces, and a piece of oiled felt or thin leather wrapped on the barrel about 5 inches back from the end of the hand guard really improves the accuracy of the rifle. I believe the felt or leather wrap cuts down onbarrel harmonics.
Hello!
I have just received the Mosin Nagant Bent/sniper bolt body from a gentlemen in Utah and it cost $70 and is highly polished, solid construction and works very smooth in the rifle.
http://www.ecrater.com/p/11412208/mosin-nagant-bent-sniper-bolt#
I have enclosed his link and if anyone is interested please take a look.
Also, I found this link for a wood monte carlo type stock at $74.00 and indicates its a drop in with some modifications or simply put 95% finished.
http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/MOSIN-NAGANT-MBC-p/300-158.htm
I hope these two piecese of information help someone.
Take care!
Carlos
Additional rifle stock options for the MN series of rifles:
http://www.rifle-stocks.com/
http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/MOSIN-NAGANT-MBC-p/300-158.htm
http://www.midwayusa.com/Find?userSearchQuery=mosin+nagant
Here’s some additional tips for MN accuracy:
http://www.ehow.com/how_4697284_make-mosin-nagant-rifle-accurate.html
Here’s someone in Phoenix, AZ who make bench rest MN one piece rifle stocks.
http://phoenix.backpage.com/SportsEquipForSale/hand-carved-custom-wood-stocks-made-locally/13711391
Carlos, As I said I lke the standard stock for the Mosin. It may not be the perfect stock. But, there are reasons for the way it is built. I’ve made a few mods to one of mine. Bedding shims for the the butt stock (the shims made from cut down berdan primed 308 surplus cartridges), a polish job for the trigger, cleaning out the places where the stock contacted the barrel with coarse sandpaper and a 7/16 deep well socket, and a wrap of oiled felt for the stock and upper handguard to cut down on barrel harmonics. Those four things shrunk my group sizes by more than 2/3rds. What I did to get my keeper Mosins was I ordered ten to get a significant discount. I then cleaned and test fired them all. I selected the three I consider to be the best ones, and then waited a year and sold the others for enough so my three cost me nothing. If you have a cash or the friends to do something like this you can get into them at no cost and you get your pick of the litter. Once again, I consider the standard stock not to be a liability but a plus. The barrel of the Mosin is a fairly thin barrel which usually is not a canidate for free floating
Hello James:
I was actually posting this information for other members to use in their efforts of either modifying their weapons or accessorize them or both. I was not directing the information that I have posted specifically to you, but to the general audience as a member is asking about stock options for the Mosin Nagant Rifle. I am glad that you have taken this avenue and perhaps you have the revenue, but if you start from the top some members have limited recources and resources and are always looking to obtain quality and reliable gear as would anyone such the case that you went to purchase a quantity and kept the best gear for yourself.
I understand the concept of how the weapon was made and its intended purpose; however, as you may be aware there are those who have to modify a historical weapon regardless or they simply want to make their weapon in their opinion a more practical one.
If you misunderstood this then i apologize, but then again I have also communicated that some of the reviews of this great weapon and the options available on the open market are rather vague and not specific. Here now your are providing more information on your modifications and the results that you have obtained of course, via trail and error. This is exactly what I am talking about, but I am glad that you have taken the time to provide this imformation and I took can appreciate accurate information versus vague informaiton.
Regards,
Carlos
Hey Carlos, I thought that was a reply just to me, Sorry. But, I still think buying in quanity is the way to go with these fine rifles. When I got mine I was able to get them for $70 dollars per including shipping. It might take some organization. But, it’s worth the effort. Classic Arms (classicarms.us) hass them now at $75 ea. if a person can get a group together to buy twenty of them. If a person has a curio & relic license or a group can work a deal with their local FFL holder (try a pawnshop). Wise use of our resources is one of our responsibilities. It took me six months to save up for my purchase. Six months of rice, beans, and Ramen and I was there. I’m lucky to have been able to acquire some mechanical and engineering knowledge during my life (Mostly through as you said trial and error some through study). With this gained knowledge I’ve been able to restore some weapons and put some together from parts kits. I also haunt the garage sales, gunshows, and thift shops. By doing this I’ve been able to collect a fair amount of survival gear. By visiting Sam’s club with a friend I’ve been able to put together a sizable store of freeze dried long term storage food. It’s all in how you go about it. You have to work at it like it’s an important job. Maybe, the most important thing you’ll ever do. Especially if you have hostages to fate (children) like I do. Respectfully, James
Here’s another link to a custom MN stock maker if anyone is interested:
http://utahcustomgunstocks.com/Home_Page.html
and here’s an example found on you tube of his work in action:
Here’s a review of the steel see thru scope mount by JMECK.
The second part.
I have a Mosin Nagant M44. I intend to mount a BSA 27X32 pistol scope on it. I Purchased the scope from http://WWW.SPORTSMANSGUIDE.COM. With a membership it costs about $45.00 ($100.00) value. I then went on Ebay and found a mount with rail for about $10,00 less rings and it has a lifetime warranty. Since the front of the scope dia.is 1 1/4″ I will have to see how tall the rings will have to be.