Long-Term Ammunition Storage and Heat

While avoiding humidity is pretty much a universal theme on the topic of long-term ammunition storage, there is a lot of directly contradictory information when it comes to heat. I’d like your input if you have any experience or observations in this area.

The generally very informative Ammo Oracle at AR15.com has this to say:

The three primary killers of ammo are heat, moisture, and chemicals. Excessive heat will break down both the powder and the primer compound over time, causing erratic ignition and velocities.

Military guidance on how much heat is too much heat doesn’t offer much. Department of the Army Pamphlet 700–16, THE ARMY AMMUNITION MANAGEMENT SYSTEM for Logistics, does not list any temperatures, noting only that:

In general, ammunition must be protected from moisture and should be protected from temperature extremes when feasible.

Department of the Army Pamphlet 385-65, Ammunition and Explosives Safety Standards, says in Chapter 2, Field Storage of Ammunition:

When standard magazines are not available, buildings used for AE [ammunition and explosives] storage must afford protection against moisture and excessive changes in temperature and have means for adequate ventilation. . . The AE containing explosives or combustibles (such as, black powder, tracer composition, or pyrotechnic mixtures) that deteriorate rapidly in damp or high temperature environments should be stored under the best cover available.

And MARINE CORPS ORDER P8020.10A, MARINE CORPS AMMUNITION MANAGEMENT AND EXPLOSIVES SAFETY POLICY MANUAL, does not refer to heat or temperature at all, in regard to ammo storage.

Anecdotally, some say heat is bad, others note they’ve used ammo stored in very hot bunkers with no issues. Various old and/or surplus ammo from the 1950s or earlier not stored in cool conditions that still functions, and hand-loaded .223 ammo in a VA attic for ~25 years, working fine.

You can find dozens of forums or blogs that say one other, but I haven’t seen any actual studies. From a common sense perspective, seems like heat might affect ammo since it affects food and many other chemical compounds. But with a little more information, a lot of real-world examples seem to point to heat not mattering much, which might alter what passes for common sense.

From my personal experience (more anecdotal evidence), I’ve seen Conex boxes in the desert storing U.S./NATO ammo, and have personally used ammo stored in hot humid conditions for long-term with no problems. I’m talking shot shells (some old enough to be some sort of cardboard or thick paper rather than plastic), .22S/L/LR, various old surplus calibers (some with slight corrosion), etc. not in ammo boxes or with AC during the summer, for decades.

I’m leaning towards heat doesn’t matter as long as humidity is controlled.

What say you?

Review: USMC R.A.T. Boots

An October 2011 article in Survival Blog, Choosing the Right Footwear, coincidentally authored by Desert Rat in this case, brought up something that had been on my mind lately; replacing my 10+ year-old combat boots with something that would last a bit longer if/when TSHTF. Wouldn’t want to have to pull a Doug Carlton with duct tape.

I looked at REI and similar places for good hiking boots, but prefer military boots. Soon the relatively new USMC RAT (rugged all-terrain) boot caught my attention. The RAT boot is set to become a USMC standard issue item in 2012.

Made with a couple types of leather and 1000 denier nylon, and Vibram soles, polyurethane coated leather over toe and heel, they seemed like a winner. There are two versions, hot (with drain/vent holes on the side) and temperate (waterproof, with Gortex). Sound awesome.

The problem is price, from most stores for about $300. They are made by both Bates and Danner. However the Bates RAT boots were recalled after they began falling apart in Afghanistan. Danner is now the sole supplier.

That’s why you can find a lot of Bates RAT boots relatively cheap online, when the used to go for $300. These boots may or may not be part of the rejected/defective lots. For example, The Sportsman’s Guide (TSG) has the Bates version (hot weather) for $100, cheap due to “slight blemishes.” Or are they actually the defective boots? Seemed too cheap, but see below…

I eventually found a pair of Danner temperate RAT boots in my size on eBay for about $200 (eBay return policies can be iffy so you need to know your size for sure). The finish on the boots is outstanding, no break-in was required. The only problem is that they are too hot if it’s over 50 degrees with any sort of activity, like walking. I found out that these are also referred to as “cold” weather boots and Marines in Afghanistan also said they were too hot.

So I mistakenly thought “temperate” would be suitable for most weather in the U.S. Sadly not the case, walking a bit when it’s 60 degrees out had me ready to get the boots off soon. No doubt they’ll be great for winter, but it’s been an expensive lesson.

During my search I had contacted Bates to see if the boots for sale at TSG were from the defective lots. Didn’t hear back until after I’d purchased my Danner boots; they are NOT part of the defective lots.

I said screw it and bought another pair from TSG. Since I’ a club member there, got them for just under $90. Combined shipping with a bunch of other stuff.

The Danner RAT boots are superior in fit/finish to the Bates boots. The leather/nylon materials are a little bit nicer and better cut. The Danner boot went on with zero break-in while the Bates were a little stiffer, though I don’t think they’d cause blisters if I did a 20 mile walk from day one. The Vibram soles are exactly the same. Stitching on both seems to be excellent. The coyote brown is a bit darker on the Bates version, which I prefer. Laces on both are identical.

Overall I would say the Danner RAT boots are a bit better, if the Danner is a $300 boot, the Bates is a $200 boot, IMO. But for around $100 the Bates version from TSG is an excellent deal. I noted some really slight blemishes on the pair I got, nothing I’m concerned with at all. If you’re within a couple years of needing a new boot, I suggest getting some from TSG at they low prices while they still have them.

Now with two pairs to alternate, one for winter and one for the rest of the year, I expect these boots to last me 15-20 years at current levels of use. Probably a lot less if TEOTWAWKI kicks off as they’ll get more use, but we’ll cross that road when we get there. Would not want to get caught in something like that with only my old boots on hand.

UPDATE: Wellco also makes them, right now for sale at $140. I have no idea about the quality of these boots.

Guns and Ammo Finishing Touches

When you get to where you’re going, some GPS units say, “you have arrived.” That’s kind of what I feel like as I expect that before the New Year my brothers and I will have all standard rifles and carbines and standard caliber pistols (9mm) and shotguns (12 gauge), exceeded our minimum ammo stockpile requirements for all calibers/gauges we own, and have sufficient gear such as slings, scopes, etc.

Is it enough? No, it’s never enough. But if TEOTWAWKI happened on or after January 01, 2012, wouldn’t feel like we got caught with our pants down, at least considering firearms, ammo, and related gear.

For longer range rifles (~200+ yards), we have several more Mosin Nagant rifles than we can probably use – I expect others would show up and need them. Several of those rifles already have bent bolts, will soon have JMeck scope mounts, and will then be scoped with Nikon or Simons scopes.

We chose the Mini-14 Tactical (and here) for our carbine (300 yards max, closer preferred). While there are not as many customization options for the Mini-14 as for the more popular AR-15 variants, we determined that for a survival situation in which spare parts or a choice in ammo might not be available, the more rugged piston operated and sufficiently accurate Ruger will do just fine.

Recently Nutnfancy spoke about the importance of being, “Tactically Squared Away,” and Ryan wrote about having enough ammo of sufficient caliber. I agree with both. We’ve been slowly putting away thousands of rounds in all calibers/gauges, and the slings, scopes, mag pouches, dump pouches, etc. that are needed. We’ll be using MOLLE II FLC vests to attach needed pouches and other items (these days very cheap, shop eBay).

At one point I thought it best to get rid of (for us) odd caliber weapons so that we don’t need to worry about the logistics of spare parts and ammo for them long-term. But I eventually decided that unless obsolete, having a variety of non-standard caliber weapons – or a way to use ammo for them – is fine. For example, we don’t have a .38 special or .357 magnum, but an adapter will allow us to shoot that ammo from a 12 gauge shotgun. Adapters are available in a varied of calibers and gauges.

For guns, ammo, and related gear we’re there – but will keep adding, especially more magazines and ammo. Can never have enough. But the new priority for 2012 will be food stockpiling and growing…