When you get to where you’re going, some GPS units say, “you have arrived.” That’s kind of what I feel like as I expect that before the New Year my brothers and I will have all standard rifles and carbines and standard caliber pistols (9mm) and shotguns (12 gauge), exceeded our minimum ammo stockpile requirements for all calibers/gauges we own, and have sufficient gear such as slings, scopes, etc.
Is it enough? No, it’s never enough. But if TEOTWAWKI happened on or after January 01, 2012, wouldn’t feel like we got caught with our pants down, at least considering firearms, ammo, and related gear.
For longer range rifles (~200+ yards), we have several more Mosin Nagant rifles than we can probably use – I expect others would show up and need them. Several of those rifles already have bent bolts, will soon have JMeck scope mounts, and will then be scoped with Nikon or Simons scopes.
We chose the Mini-14 Tactical (and here) for our carbine (300 yards max, closer preferred). While there are not as many customization options for the Mini-14 as for the more popular AR-15 variants, we determined that for a survival situation in which spare parts or a choice in ammo might not be available, the more rugged piston operated and sufficiently accurate Ruger will do just fine.
Recently Nutnfancy spoke about the importance of being, “Tactically Squared Away,” and Ryan wrote about having enough ammo of sufficient caliber. I agree with both. We’ve been slowly putting away thousands of rounds in all calibers/gauges, and the slings, scopes, mag pouches, dump pouches, etc. that are needed. We’ll be using MOLLE II FLC vests to attach needed pouches and other items (these days very cheap, shop eBay).
At one point I thought it best to get rid of (for us) odd caliber weapons so that we don’t need to worry about the logistics of spare parts and ammo for them long-term. But I eventually decided that unless obsolete, having a variety of non-standard caliber weapons – or a way to use ammo for them – is fine. For example, we don’t have a .38 special or .357 magnum, but an adapter will allow us to shoot that ammo from a 12 gauge shotgun. Adapters are available in a varied of calibers and gauges.
For guns, ammo, and related gear we’re there – but will keep adding, especially more magazines and ammo. Can never have enough. But the new priority for 2012 will be food stockpiling and growing…
Good ideas. I have started looking into casting bullets as well. They of course can lead your barrels out if you get too high in the FPS range but when it all plays out even simple lead will be worthwhile when ya have nothing else. One thing I really like about the revolvers is it is much easier to keep your brass collected. I don’t even bother trying to find my .45 brass or at least spend much time looking for it but I never lose a .38 or .357. I am also finding out that even off calibers are worth keeping. A few hundred rounds and a little research show that you can actually do more with them and extend their life just by simply picking up a die for them. The 7.62 bullets will work in a .303 brit and there is always paper patching for emergencies.
Good post
I HOPE 2012 is your priority year for storing and growing food. For me, it’s EMP protection, this next year. After all, you want to deal with what might kill you on Monday, before you deal with what might killl you on Thursday (however, it seems like they might all be converging in 2012, anyway).
I get the feeling that right now you’re a massive amount of weapons, ammo, and NO food preps. This means you’re going to be trading alot of your ammo, spare rifles, etc., for food, if TEOTWAWKI happened on 1 JAN. Nothing wrong with that. Or, worst case, you become a bad guy, since you have weapons, and no food. Or, hopefully, you live in a community where you’ll be trading your military skills for other supplies, etc.
And remember (especially from veterans of the Bosnian conflict): Everyone post TSHTF will have weapons. Ammo? That’s something else. Ammo should be your priority, over number of firearms.
BTW, who do you expect to be shooting at, at over 200 yards, anyway? Let me guess: Some harmless refugees, going past your property? You might want to at least identify someone, before you shoot them. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with long-range shooting (me: Highly customized #1 Mk 3 Enfield, with Huber Concepts trigger, 50 mm obj. Nikon scope, cut & recrowned, 1 MOA w/ 1st two rounds of each group).
As a preparedness consultant, I tell city clients that there’s nothing wrong with pistol carbines. A good carbine or carbine conversion loaded with 9mm +P+, for example, is perfect in a urban / suburban environment, for within 100 yards. A lot of operator types in Baghdad prefered the Beretta Storm over the M4.
Just some freebie advice.
To clarify I do not stock ammunition in calibers I do not have guns in.However due to my collecting past I have a gun in most of the real common calibers out there. At some point in the future having one or two hundred rounds of a few moderately common calibers I do not own guns in (example .44 special, 20 gauge,7.62x54R) would not be a bad idea though it is like thing #200 on a very long and expensive list.\
Getting past the freakout level is a very comforting thing indeed. Also it means you can put resources into other areas which is good.
I am not as persuaded about the need for lots of pistol ammunition as some. Seems like most of those fights are going to be over in a few rounds. They tend to be pretty deadly fights because ranges are often very short. Of course my idea of “lots” is a lot different than some others.
I went with the 308 (7.62 NATO) as standard. I am sure you have heard all the arguments.
PP,
I think you’re in a much better place in preps, with the reloading capability, solar, bees, etc. Casting will be way, way better than nothing and will be another excellent trade item, along with honey and potentially charging batteries.
Nobody,
You get the wrong feeling when it comes to food with my family/group. We have some food storage and the property/know how to produce. However, firearms, ammo, and gear have been a priority since those can’t be grown, and we’ve been thinking about this for awhile;
http://suburbansurvivalist.wordpress.com/2010/03/25/the-survivalist-spectrum/
http://suburbansurvivalist.wordpress.com/2010/03/26/how-will-you-live-post-teotwawki/
Bottom line when it comes to food vs. guns is that you can’t grow guns/ammo, and you can’t protect any food or production capability w/o guns.
Anyone within 200 yards of our home will be much farther than than past the fences, gates, and several explicit No Trespassing signs posted on them as the house if far off the rural road. If we see armed groups within 200 yards, we will not expect them to be “harmless refugees” passing by. We’re not all combat soldiers and do not envision preferring the close quarters antics depicted in Rawles’ books – the further off any engagement, the better.
The home is in a very rural environment, but we do have some 9mm carbines. Those are not primary weapons as the effective range is not sufficient.
Russell,
Besides having enough for whatever emergency, we have enough 9mm for training and potentially trade, though we’d have to be very careful who we traded any ammo to. .308 would have been ideal, but too expensive for the number of weapons and amount of people we would potentially have here.
Instead of a Mosin Nagant, I would have suggested a 30.06 deer rifle with a scope for long range. The ammo type is much easier to find in the Continental US than the 7.62x54mm. Also, that AR-15 can reach out and touch someone at a long distance. Marines train on them to 500 yards on the range.
http://www.shtfplan.com/emergency-preparedness/a-survival-q-a-living-through-shtf-in-the-middle-of-a-war-zone_10252011
The above link is from SHTFplan.com and is an interview with a survivor of the Bosnian conflict. he offers real world experience on what it is like to live and survive in a collapsed society. Well worth the read!
Starting in about 2003-2004 I started buy ammo in bulk. Pistol and rifle ammo. Not thinking about the ‘End of Times’, but not wanting to run to a store everytime I went to the range. I have not gone with exotic calibers but some standards .38,, .357, 9mm, .44 Mag(small quant.), 5.56, .308(M1A), and 12ga (slugs/00′ buck). Living in the S.F Bay Area we have huge gangs, Black, Hispanic, Asian, and other major criminal elements. Once the SHTF, these groups will take advantage of the chaos. The best example were the 1991 Rodney King riots in Los Angeles. However, if you are rural, you may not have to worry about them for a while. But, you will have to worry about those desperate to survive. I think 200 yards is the minimum at identifying strangers. Good optics, common sense, and 360 degree security will take care of the rest.
“BTW, who do you expect to be shooting at, at over 200 yards, anyway? Let me guess: Some harmless refugees, going past your property?”
While there certainly are “preppers” who think this way, suburban isn’t one of them. I’ve seen him speak out a couple of times on different blog threads against folks that were using that line of thought and I’ve never read anything he’s posted anywhere to suggest that he’s one of them.
I’ve got a few boxes of common caliber ammo (maybe 300 rounds total) for guns that I don’t own. I’m figuring there’s going to be more guns than ammo around in the future.
Raven,
We do have one.30-06 rifle and several hundred rounds for it. We’ll probably scope it, or at least have a mount for it. The problem with the round is that it’s so expensive, generally $0.55/round, while 7.62x54R can be had for under $0.20/round. That adds up with thousands or rounds, and the ballistics are similar enough. We know the MN are a compromise, but scopes they are fine.
While 5.56mm is supposed to have an effective range of 500m, it loses a lot of energy by then. Also, our carbines mostly have red dot type sights (I prefer EOTech) and 200 yards is about as far as I want to go with those. In a pinch out to 300, but I would prefer to have a harder hitting caliber at range.
Freeport,
Thanks for the link, I’ve started reading it, will finish this evening. Since you’re in LA, what you think about bugging out by boat? If you had a well secured boat with major preps already on board, might make sense.
Michael,
Thanks. As you note, I have no plans to start indiscriminately offing refugees (or stopping them for inspections like in Patriots). Our place is fairly out of the way, and we’d try to redirect if it ever came to that. I may start looking for cheap boxes of odd ammo at sales…
If I lived in an out of the way place, I’s make friendly with some of the folks passing through to see what was going on in the world and to learn if there were any people around that I should really worry about. It’ amazing what you can learn from people by being nice to them.
SS-
Actually, I am in Napa, CA 50 miles from San Francisco. Since this is ground Zero for4 the ‘Far-Left’ most of my neighbors will be unprepared. If I was in SoCal and had access to a boat with my group, i would beat feet to Catalina Island 26 miles off the coast of Los Angeles. They have a water desalinization plant, herds of cattle, great fishing, wild boar, and a good growing climate. It also has a 360 degree unimpeded view of the ocean and is defensible.
My personal preference is staying close to the Coastal marine CA climate, mild summer temps, winters, great growing climate, and abundant water supplies. I want to stay away from drier, hotter climates. I believe their would be too much competition for water.
As for the 200 yard shooting distance.. There are two groups out their the AR and the AK group. 200 yards +, puts me out of the AK groups range. Buffers keep you unknown and not as easily scouted. After all remaininjg below the radar is what survival will be about.
Freeport,
You’re around a lot of people come collapse, but from what I’ve seen in your comments you’ve thought everything through and have a good plan — Good luck!
Another thought on the 200 yard range post-SHTF. We will have hidden sentries with GMRS radios a lot further out than 200 yards. Hopefully they will give advance warning to us. We will also have scopes in the house to get a loot at any who approach. I’ve thought about it a lot but can’t cover every conceivable scenario. We don’t want to hurt innocents, or incite some sort of blood feud. But it only takes one time of erring on the side of giving folks a break to loose people or end up wiped out.