An October 2011 article in Survival Blog, Choosing the Right Footwear, coincidentally authored by Desert Rat in this case, brought up something that had been on my mind lately; replacing my 10+ year-old combat boots with something that would last a bit longer if/when TSHTF. Wouldn’t want to have to pull a Doug Carlton with duct tape.
I looked at REI and similar places for good hiking boots, but prefer military boots. Soon the relatively new USMC RAT (rugged all-terrain) boot caught my attention. The RAT boot is set to become a USMC standard issue item in 2012.
Made with a couple types of leather and 1000 denier nylon, and Vibram soles, polyurethane coated leather over toe and heel, they seemed like a winner. There are two versions, hot (with drain/vent holes on the side) and temperate (waterproof, with Gortex). Sound awesome.
The problem is price, from most stores for about $300. They are made by both Bates and Danner. However the Bates RAT boots were recalled after they began falling apart in Afghanistan. Danner is now the sole supplier.
That’s why you can find a lot of Bates RAT boots relatively cheap online, when the used to go for $300. These boots may or may not be part of the rejected/defective lots. For example, The Sportsman’s Guide (TSG) has the Bates version (hot weather) for $100, cheap due to “slight blemishes.” Or are they actually the defective boots? Seemed too cheap, but see below…
I eventually found a pair of Danner temperate RAT boots in my size on eBay for about $200 (eBay return policies can be iffy so you need to know your size for sure). The finish on the boots is outstanding, no break-in was required. The only problem is that they are too hot if it’s over 50 degrees with any sort of activity, like walking. I found out that these are also referred to as “cold” weather boots and Marines in Afghanistan also said they were too hot.
So I mistakenly thought “temperate” would be suitable for most weather in the U.S. Sadly not the case, walking a bit when it’s 60 degrees out had me ready to get the boots off soon. No doubt they’ll be great for winter, but it’s been an expensive lesson.
During my search I had contacted Bates to see if the boots for sale at TSG were from the defective lots. Didn’t hear back until after I’d purchased my Danner boots; they are NOT part of the defective lots.
I said screw it and bought another pair from TSG. Since I’ a club member there, got them for just under $90. Combined shipping with a bunch of other stuff.
The Danner RAT boots are superior in fit/finish to the Bates boots. The leather/nylon materials are a little bit nicer and better cut. The Danner boot went on with zero break-in while the Bates were a little stiffer, though I don’t think they’d cause blisters if I did a 20 mile walk from day one. The Vibram soles are exactly the same. Stitching on both seems to be excellent. The coyote brown is a bit darker on the Bates version, which I prefer. Laces on both are identical.
Overall I would say the Danner RAT boots are a bit better, if the Danner is a $300 boot, the Bates is a $200 boot, IMO. But for around $100 the Bates version from TSG is an excellent deal. I noted some really slight blemishes on the pair I got, nothing I’m concerned with at all. If you’re within a couple years of needing a new boot, I suggest getting some from TSG at they low prices while they still have them.
Now with two pairs to alternate, one for winter and one for the rest of the year, I expect these boots to last me 15-20 years at current levels of use. Probably a lot less if TEOTWAWKI kicks off as they’ll get more use, but we’ll cross that road when we get there. Would not want to get caught in something like that with only my old boots on hand.
UPDATE: Wellco also makes them, right now for sale at $140. I have no idea about the quality of these boots.
Thanks SS-
I picked up a pair of Converse Desert side-zip boots with steel toes a couple of years ago. More recently I purchased a pair of Belleville KIOWA ankle high combat boots.
http://militarygear.com/mens-converse-8-stealth-ct
http://americanequipage.com/BellevilleKIOWAMulticam-TR505.aspx
The key is the cleaning products and leather maintenance products you use. As with any gear, the better you care for it, the longer it will last. Great review on the RAT boots. I am going to look into those as a backup as well.
I bought a pair from TSG. They were a little tight at first, but after wearing for a couple of days they fit perfectly. The only complaint I have with them is that the soles squeak. Not bad outside, but inside they are definitely noticable. I found absolutely no visible defects and have worn them daily for the past 6 months. I would buy another pair from TSG when they have my size in stock. Great boots!
Freeport,
Those converse are probably a lot lighter than these RAT boots, and the KIOWAs look almost like moccasins. How well do they wear on rough ground?
CC,
I’ve noticed a sqeak as well, but did not with the Danner boots. Surprising since they are both Vibram soles that look exactly the same. So far I love these boots and am recommending to friends/family.
I currently wear Altima Exospeeds as my all around boot. They are super comfortable but wear a bit faster than some others as they are lighter and more cloth/ foam. The pair I have on have had two years of hard use and are still functional. I have been meaning to order a pair of the new nikes. I favor light boots for marching, running and other real world tasks as well as everyday use. For winter those new Danner mountain boots are hard to beat.
Thankfully due to deployments and uniform changes I have a couple GI duffel bags full of new unworn or barely worn boots so I doubt I will ever run out.
SS-
They have a great lug on the sole, fit like a glove. The Converse are my primary and the KIOWAs are backups. Still looking for one more pair. Since our plans do not include Desert or Mountain travel I am having an expectation of having these last a while. Of course there is always the “X” factor. hence a third pair.
http://www.armynavyblog.com/2009/09/belleville-kiowa-boot-review.html
A review of the KIOWA Boot
One last comment, if your boots have a rough leather outter (swede), you can use food grade silicon spray to water proof. Mind you, you will not be able to stand in a stream, but it will keep your feet dryer a little longer.
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2011/03/31/thousands-of-usmc-rat-boots-recalled/
arine Corps Times staffer James K. Sanborn broke the story yesterday that the Marine Corps is recalling more than 8,000 hot-weather rugged all terrain (RAT) boots produced by Bates.
He talked to Lt. Col. Kevin Reilly, the program manager for infantry combat equipment at Marine Corps Systems Command who told him the problems include separation of both stitching and glue at the seams. Also, the eyelets, which allow the boots to breathe and drain water, were falling off the boots.“These failures are not due to the RAT boot’s design, but its manufacturing process and improper materials used in the manufacturing of the boot,” Reilly said. “That’s what caused a durability issue.”
via Thousands of pairs of new boot recalled – Marine Corps News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq – Marine Corps Times.
Freeport,
A link to a similar article is in the post above. Those were the Bates boots. Before buying the ~$100 pair of Bates RAT boots from The Sportsman’s Guide (advertised as having blemishes but otherwise good), I contacted Bates to see if that was correct. Bates got back to me in email and said those boots from Sportsman’s weren’t from the bad lots rejected by the USMC.
That’s also noted in the post above!;
“During my search I had contacted Bates to see if the boots for sale at TSG were from the defective lots. Didn’t hear back until after I’d purchased my Danner boots; they are NOT part of the defective lots.”
It’s been a long time since I bought a pair of Bates. I have a pair of Danners so I’m confident of my size in those. Are the Bates boots from TSG sized the same?
Sizes were the same for me for the Danner “temperate” (cold wx) and Bates hot wx boots. Just followed this link to TSG and this item is sold out. I get TSG member flyers and they’ll probably be selling some soon, but they’re waterproof so they may be the cold weather boots, beware they are hot.
Thanks for the quick reply man. I’ve got a pair of Danner USMC temperate boots that I love. I’m gonna pick up a pair of these temperate RATs & see how they work out.
Mac, no problem. I just want to stress that those the temperate RAT boots are very warm, if you’re not using them in some cold winter weather you’ll be sweating. But the fit/finish is excellent.