Secondary, Tertiary Consequences of a Gun Ban

An all-out Feinstein gun ban probably isn’t on the way soon (a string of shootings could change that), but its remains the goal of the Dems long-term. They will use the press to wage a propaganda war to alter public opinion enough to avoid a repeat of the 1996 elections. In the mean time, “The Democrats cannot be trusted with our freedoms, and they will politicize every tragedy to accomplish their ends.”

If a gun ban were put in place that greatly restricted some of the most popular semi-automatic rifles and pistols available today, there would be other affects down the road depending on the details. Here we’ll assume a ban on all new semi-autos, normal capacity magazine, or the transfers of those.

Markets: Drying up the civilian market would obviously cause a lot of current producers to fold their doors, especially the smaller outfits. Unless they could make the change to bolt guns (bound to become better sellers), or get and keep military and police contracts. Then the firearms available to the public would cost more since the volume would be lower (eventually, not counting the current buying frenzy).

Regulations: Paying for all the checks, record keeping, registries, etc. also has costs involved and guess who will pay them; gun owners. If it is anything close to the hoops one has to go through to own a firearm in DC, you’re talking a couple days (or more) of in-person filings at various offices, and hundreds of dollars of fees, on top of the cost of probably mandatory firearms training.

Overall effect: Shrink the market; make legally owning firearms prohibitively expensive for most Americans. Key work there is legally – the bad guys won’t be paying any of those fees, and won’t be limited to whatever the nanny-state allows.

Some Republicans may roll over: See info from the Doc Thompson Show.

Nutnfancy explains a Second Amendment issue: Many for gun control think those who favor owning firearms as a check on the government are delusional since modern militaries are so powerful. Nutn explains that semi-auto rifles can get one a crew-served weapon, etc.

Sturmgewehre goes into detail on the magazine ban: Mac also include a link to contact your elected representatives to tell them you do not want them to vote for more gun regulations.

At Guns.com, see a Marine’s letter to Feinstein, and Ted Nugent’s letter to Biden.

BOYCOTT: Dick’s Sporting Goods for rolling on it’s customers, and Cheaper Than Dirt for attempting to profiteer.

Those Damn Government Workers

As the economy has declined over the past several years we’ve all become more aware of federal spending issues, and it has become fashionable to bash those lazy, can’t-be-fired, overpaid government employees. A study by the Heritage Foundation in 2010 and another by the Congressional Budget Office in 2012 both found that federal employees are paid more than those in the private sector.

Guess what: I’m a government civilian employee, a fed. Yes, one of the snakes out to crush the life out of you.

Don’t worry, I’m not a secret socialist, this is not to disagree with the fact that some feds as a whole are paid more, and you’ll never hear me calling for more government, just the opposite. The federal government is getting smaller now and much deeper cuts will come. This is to add some context that media summaries of the larger reports don’t stress enough.

I decided to work for the government because I wanted to be in a certain field where you pretty much must be either a fed, government contractor, or military, and I’ve been all of those things at one point or another. As a side note, before I was evil I was stupid. Back when I came into the federal workforce and the economy was good, many people felt those taking government jobs, or even going into the military with a commission, were idiots, a lot more could be made in the private sector. Times change.

This is longwinded but has a point. From a survivalist’s vantage, if you think collapse is immanent you may not care much what goes on with the government as long as it doesn’t affect you directly before that happens. Fair enough. I tend to see us as being in a slow collapse right now that could trigger a fast one unexpectedly and must eventually if nothing changes, but it could also drag on for many years or even decades. Though I think it unlikely, we as a country and civilization could somehow not collapse with enough dumb luck (our politicians sure aren’t going to fix what’s wrong).

If this slow collapse we’re in does take a long time to wind down to TEOTWAWKI, how and where we cut the government does actually matter. In part how we can defend ourselves, but also how the rest of the world deals with us – especially in trade – is due in no small part to our military power. The Department of Defense is 35% of the federal civilian workforce. Unfocused budged can easily hurting our national defense.

This could affect our access to energy, other imports, policies on exports, etc. that would in turn influence inflation/deflation, what goods we have, and of course jobs. Maintaining some global influence will be important as long as we’re in this slow collapse.

In the larger scheme of things, we could cut defense out of the budget entirely and in a few years mandated increases in Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, and interest on the national debt would eat up that savings – and we’d not have a defense/military.

I’m not saying that because I’m in defense and trying to save my job. Being on the inside I can say yes we need to cut a lot but we’d better be damned careful where we do cut. We do have a lot of deadwood. There are people that are not productive, there are departments or divisions or offices that are redundant or of no real use. On the other side of that, we need to cut carefully and there are some dedicated folks who give it 110%.

Some of this anti-fed sentiment seemed to have fueled part of the rationale for a government shutdown in late 2011. The shutdown is an examples of something that sounds like a good idea but isn’t, unintended consequences. Yeah, let’s stick it to those government employees; give them a taste of furlough!

The problem is that government shutdowns end up costing the government more, even if federal employees aren’t paid for the time they’re off. I’m not saying this because I’m a fed, I’m saying this because it is in reality a lose-lose situation and I don’t want my tax dollars pissed away any more than the next guy.

Getting back to those reports and the public opinions they help drive. The studies control for years of experience, location, etc. One problem with this is that many of those in defense actually have occupations are not in the civilian workforce, but are comprised of highly educated employees. Many have security clearances and other specialized skills that just don’t translate that well.

That is the case with where I work, there is no good private sector comparison. We all have at least a four-year degree (most have advanced degrees), clearances, perhaps another language, and specialized experience and training. Where I work even the janitors have security clearances and get higher pay for it.

In this time of slow collapse the government is finally starting to downsize. Right now it’s mostly through attrition. Eventually it will be through axing entire departments, if we get that far if and before a fast/total collapse.

What can any of us do about it? Besides voting for candidates that we think will cut the budget with some thought and research, not a whole lot. But this doesn’t mean you’re helpless, you can add this to your list of indications and warnings that help you gauge where we’re at. Understanding they “why” can help you determine the “what” to do about it best for you. Sometimes that’s all we can do.

The cuts are coming for all of government and tougher times for everyone, but how it happens will probably matter. If we’re going to go down anyway, I’d rather not have the U.S. end up being China’s or even Russia’s bitch before it does.

And next time the anti-fed bashing begins, remember it’s not as black and white as some say. There are sometimes unintended consequences. Some feds are on your side.

Review: Kel-Tec SU-16C Carbine

Several months ago I saw a deal on a Kel-Tec SU-16C ($515 from Bud’s) that I couldn’t pass up. Once I got it, it took awhile to find time to get to a rifle range and shoot it. But now that I’ve shot it, had it apart a few times, and done a few basic modifications, it’s time to review this carbine.

First what this rifle is and isn’t. At 4.7 lbs unloaded and just over five with an optic, with a folding stock (can shoot folded), using cheap and plentiful AR magazines, I consider this primarily a bug out weapon in 5.56 NATO. Excellent for a pack, trunk, toolbox, etc. Relatively inexpensive, few parts to break/replace, and a clean piston system. Picatinny rail on top for easy scope mounting options. Anything for bugging out is also fine for home defense. I don’t consider it a long-term survival weapon with hard use in mind – it’s not an AK or Mini-14 – and will cover that below.

There are several variants of the SU-16. I prefer the SU-16C for the thicker barrel and folding stock. If you have any of the other SU-16 versions, a folding stock can be added, if legal in your state.

The excellent Nutnfacny review of the SU-16C noted that the carbine might need a couple hundred rounds for breaking-in. I shot about 200 rounds of PMC 55 grain FMJ and 60 of Wolf 55 grain HP through mine with no malfunctions at all, so I was probably lucky and this one didn’t seem to need that. The Wolf HP was to verify it would eat cheap steel-cased ammo. Cleaning was easy, very little fouling, very clean shooting.

As part of the break-in process, I went through three 30 round magazines in rapid fire to see if I’d get any stringing when the barrel got hot. Didn’t notice any of that, but it did get hot enough that I was worried about some of the plastic parts melting, especially where the barrel connects to the stock. I did not have this concern with the Ruger Mini-14 Tactical carbine.

Accuracy was good for a break-in, but conditions at the range weren’t ideal. I was a bit rushed, the 100 yard area was in the shade, and it had rained recently so impacts didn’t cause any dust to appear. Excuses aside, I was able to sight it in with an EOTech 512 and hit a nine inch gong at 100 yards consistently. A little more time in better conditions and I’d have the iron sights dialed in, but that’ll have to be next time.

The reason I say, IMO, the SU-16C isn’t a long-term survival carbine with hard use is that I suspect the polymer stock isn’t up to it. Let me stress couple phrases here; long-term and hard use. Glocks have stood the test of time, but an SU-16 has a lot more surface area that needs to hold up. When TSHTF, I’ll be fine with the SU-16C for bugging out. When I get to the retreat, I want my Mini-14 Tactical. The SU-16C will remain for occasional use.

I changed three things on this carbine; added a Kel-Tec compact fore end, a Yankee Hill Phantom C2 flash hider, and a single point sling attachment. The flash hider was a pain because the SU-16C threads didn’t quite lend to easy installation. Took awhile, but I got it. The sling attachment was actually for a PLR – but works perfectly for the SU-16 (note to Kel-Tec, you need to market the PLR sling attachment for the SU-16).

The compact fore end installation was a real pain. I wanted this change so I could use a fore grip and to mount a bipod, and maybe a flashlight. First, the instructions from Kel-Tec absolutely suck. As did the PLR sling attachment instructions. This is a big Kel-Tec fail. So I looked online – this guy did it all wrong, should be a lot more solid.

And getting the compact fore end solid was the real problem. If a fore grip is mounted to it, it must be solid, not come off easily. Some people may add it to look cool, I did not, I wanted some function out of the picatinny rail underneath. My solution was to drill holes and cut/drill/tap four small strips of aluminum to hold the compact fore grip together solidly from the inside with some hex bolts. Took a few hours to get everything right, used blue Loc-Tite. End result, its rock solid.

Overall this is a perfect bug out carbine in 5.56mm NATO, has a clean piston operation, takes cheap AR mags, has good optics mounting options, is ultra light, clean shooting, and inexpensive. Not a major consideration, but looks cool and is fun to shot. Probably not for long-term, hard use, but fine for home defense.

Selecting a TEOTWAWKI Carbine: Mini-14 Tactical

Over Christmas vacation I was able to put my recently purchased Mini-14 Tactical through its paces, overall with very good results. Tested with iron sights, red-dot, and scoped (out to 300 yards); and using a wide variety of ammunition. Review to follow, this post is about the process used to select the Mini-14.

The criteria my brothers and I started with in selection a group standard carbine; reliability, accuracy, durability, high capacity magazines, can use a wide variety of ammunition, weight, able to reach out to 300 yards (scoped), and price. Not necessarily in that order, we were looking at the whole rifle capability. We have Mosin Nagants for longer-ranges (review to follow).

We did a lot of research before settling on the Mini-14. While I’ve owned AK-47s and have experience with the M-16 in the military, I had not fired a Mini-14. We all read a lot of online reviews and all the “AR vs. AK vs. Mini” forum threads we could find.

While there are high capacity magazines for the SKS (7.62x39mm, like the AK-47), they are awkward and the rifle itself is larger and heavier than the other carbines being considered. We still own a few SKSs and will keep them as backups. Also looked at the KelTec SU-16C, but eliminated it early on due to concerns about long-term use of the polymer parts that are probably more apt to be bumped around than a Glock.

Something you’ll come across fairly often in forums discussing AR vs. AK is that 5.56mm ammunition will be more accessible in a TEOTWAWKI situation. While we selected a rifle in 5.56mm, I think that notion is a myth; the military and maybe police would have some but it’s not like they’re going to sell it or share it. 5.56mm might be available for a little longer, but the vast majority of ammo would become scarce at any price.

Early on in we research we eliminated the AK-47 and AK-74. They’re fun to shoot and have an undeniable track record for rugged combat reliability and durability, but the AK-47 isn’t generally considered very accurate past 100-200 yards and is a hassle to scope. The AK-74 and its 5.45x39mm ammo aren’t very prevalent in the U.S. yet, so that was also ruled out.

A few years ago I never would have considered a Mini-14 due to its notorious accuracy problems and very expensive magazines. The problem with that view is that Ruger improved the Mini-14 several years ago, adding thicker barrels, tighter tolerances, and a few different versions. Magazine prices are now also sane, at about $30 for factory 30-round steel magazines.

There are a lot of Mini-haters out there, which made forum threads painful at times. Those with no trigger time on the new Minis continued to berate their accuracy. That’s like comparing the reliability of the original M-16 to a modern M-4; apples and oranges. Nutnfancy has a thorough and bias-free review of the Mini-14 Tactical.

Having narrowed things down to an AR or a Mini-14, my brothers and I were leaning towards the AR, specifically the SIG516. Truth be told I’d like to be able to outfit all of us with these, but at about $1,350 before shipping, taxes, and FFL fees, it’s a bit too much. Additionally, there are also still valid concerns about feeding ARs cheap ammo since some ARs are finicky. Training with the steel-cased ammo is a lot cheaper, and what if the steel-cased was all that was available after TSHTF?

Sifting through the forums where people with actual trigger time on the newer Mini-14s showed the new and old to be like two different weapons as far as accuracy. Still with AK-like reliability and durability, but now with accuracy nearing the AR.

Some arguing against the Mini-14 and for the AR-15 claimed Mini-14 parts aren’t nearly as widely available as AR parts. Looking at Cheaper Than Dirt, Centerfire, CDNN, etc., that claim is absolutely true, lots more AR parts (and more accessories) out there. Why? Reading forums it seems Mini-14s almost never break (firing pin a noted issue in some Minis after high round counts).

This reminds me of another often quoted Mini-14 myth: it’s a good varmint rifle – coyotes and jackrabbits are in danger – but not a combat rifle. Right, because the 5.56mm round is lethal to varmints but won’t kill people when fired out of a Mini. These are the sorts of illogical arguments you need to sift through to find the information you’re looking for.

All our research led us to believe that the AR is more accurate than the newer Mini-14s, but we’re talking 1-1.5 MOA for most ARs vs. 2-3 MOA for non-target model Minis, at 100 yards, out of the box. And that the Mini-14 won’t normally do better than that. Accuracy was one of our critical criteria, but we felt 2-3 MOA was fine – we’re not snipers taking head shots.

We had two major concerns about the AR platform. First the repeated use of caveats when describing the reliability of the system, for example it’s reliable when properly lubricated or when properly cleaned. Some claimed to have fired a million rounds though their AR with no cleaning/lubrication (yes, I’m exaggerating), but those claims didn’t mesh well with the vast majority of credible information we read. Mini-14 users never used those caveats, just reported that it always goes bang.

Second was that ARs can be choosy about the type of ammo it cycles well, specifically some problems with cheap steel-cased ammo. This is a problem because it could potentially increase the cost of training with the AR, and in the perhaps unlikely but still possible event that it’s TEOTWAWKI and all you can get your hands on is some Wolf ammo.

However, unlike the Mini-14, ARs have much cheaper magazines (good ones for $10) and can be scoped with a variety of optics very easily. The Mini-14 has $30 magazines and using the provided scope rings (which are not quick detach, or QD) blocks iron sights. Overall, we considered these annoyances rather than deal breakers, and a B-Square mount for the Mini-14 worked out very well (w/o rings for ~$50, review to follow).

Considering our criteria and planned use as a TEOTWAWKI weapon, we settled on the Mini-14. If we never expected a SHTF situation, could afford to stock up on tens of thousands of brass-cased rounds, and price was not a concern, might’ve gone with an AR. The Mini-14 accuracy is now very good, reliability/durability excellent, can reach out to 300 yards easily, not picky about ammo, and the price is right – under $600 at CDNN.

In the end, it all comes down to your personal (or group) criteria and preferences. If you like or dislike the ergos, etc. on one or the other, go with what you like. IMO the AR, AK, and Mini can all good choices, depending on your specific needs.

Potential Gun Confiscation When Needed Most

A reader recently submitted a question about firearm confiscation during emergencies (the same question was posed to the author of Suburban Survival Blog and answered there a few days ago). Lightly edited:

[I]n regards to your plans for defense and firearms, in the event of an emergency (SHTF or something leading up to TEOTWAWKI) do you *really* believe that you will be allowed to keep your firearms if such an event happens? (emphasis mine)

Remember that after Katrina, New Orleans police confiscated all [legal] firearms and held on to them long after the immediate emergency was over. It wasn’t until the NRA sued and won did people finally get them back.

And if there is social unrest predicated on an severe economic down-turn (as many very credible pundits believe there will be in 2011), government at the local, state and/or Federal level will most likely try a firearms confiscation as they try to maintain order – just at the very time you may need them (even if you don’t leave for your farm). Can’t count on the NRA or the courts to support the 2nd Amendment in the event of such an emergency.

I’m presuming you have purchased them from legitimate sources (not asking, not judging) so they are licensed/registered/etc and easily tracked down.

And even if you don’t leave for your farm but are forced by circumstances to leave your home for ‘official’ shelter like in a school or armory (or stadium as in New Orleans), I doubt you can take your firearms in. After all, it would make a statement to walk into a school gym with a duffel in one hand and a rifle slung over your shoulder!

There are a lot of variables to consider; national vs. state level, changes in gun laws, the nature of the emergency, and so on.

Nationally. A couple years ago I read that there are an estimated 270 million privately owned firearms in the U.S, so almost as many are there are people living here. Under current laws it is unrealistic to think that a) the government knows where they all are; b) has the resources to research where they all are (FFL records) and; c) has the resources to go get them.

Congress responded to the unconstitutional gun confiscations during Katrina with the Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act of 2006 (H.R. 5013 [109th]), which was signed into law in October 2006. North Carolina banned guns during a bad storm earlier this year and is being sued for it.

States and Localities. The 2006 federal law has major loopholes that leave room for states to confiscate firearms in some circumstances. I’m not a lawyer so won’t attempt to parse all the ins-and-outs, it’s enough to know they can. During major social uprisings, natural disasters, marital law, etc., they could confiscate weapons.

However, a growing number of states are passing “emergency powers” legislation that prevents firearm confiscation during emergencies. Map via the NRA:

Surprise, surprise, my home state of Nebraska doesn’t have such a law, at least yet. Viewing that map also directly affects my bug out plans for driving home when and if things start to fall apart, assuming I haven’t moved much closer by then (which I’m trying to do).

Game Changers. A break down in civil order and high violent crime rates, brought on by a currency crisis and hyperinflation or other event, could cause changes in both national and state/local gun laws and ordinances. Or a string of high-profile mass murders with semi-auto weapons could be enough to turn the tide on gun control, as it did in Australia (remember the Brady Bill?).

Most readers here will recognize that restrictive gun laws leave law abiding citizens unarmed and the criminals with guns, but unfortunately enough lawmakers may not.

Such a change could prompt the federal government to create a national firearms registration system, or the states to require registration (most states do not currently). Once such records are complete, it would be much easier to confiscate firearms if that decision was made. It would still be manpower intensive and expensive, but the most difficult part would be done.

Bottom Line: Right now, with our current laws, I’m not worried about targeted or door-to-door confiscation if things start to fall apart. Might not be able to carry outside the home (even with a permit), but not outright confiscation. That could change but I would expect laws to change first. Even if the laws do change, most law enforcement will be too busy trying to hold back total chaos.

What I am most worried about are checkpoints or roadblocks in states, towns, etc. that would search vehicles and persons for firearms, and confiscate them. If they really want to find them, they usually do. That’s one reason I plan to avoid interstates, major highways, and other main roads if things are getting bad. If things are fairly normal but looking to get bad, might not have to worry about it – too many variables.

Recommendations. 1) Don’t live in states or cities that require firearms registration or permits to buy. Live someplace where you don’t have to go through an FFL to legally purchase firearms. I know, easier said than done, but if it’s worth it to you, move if you live in a restrictive place. Whatever you do, don’t break the laws where you live since that will give “them” the excuse needed, and you may not be able to legally buy again – just not worth it.

2) Get a concealed carry permit. While this puts you on the state police radar for having a pistol, exactly what and how many you have is still an unknown (if you follow #1 above). It may allow you to carry in troubled times when you otherwise could not.

3) If things go south and you need to bug out, (aside from going soon) have a plan for concealing your weapons. If you don’t have a concealed carry permit, lock them in the trunk (or tool box, etc.), but, as the reader said, don’t be walking around with a rifle on your shoulder. While legal in most places, it’s conspicuous and during marital law can only invite trouble.

Check out the NRA gun laws page, and the Wikipedia gun laws page for state gun laws.

Post Collapse: Community vs. Communism

If Jim Rawles allowed comments at his popular Survival Blog, the post, Community Crisis Planning for Societal Collapse, by J.I.R., would probably be over 1,000 by now.

J.I.R. starts out with a no nonsense look at how communities will function should an American collapse occur past the short-term. The need to establish rule of law, stockpile resources, and ensure critical functions are completed.

But the talk of confiscating resources hit a lot of raw nerves and rightly so. I’ll hit a few representative high points – the things that really get under my skin – and try to keep it in context;

If you let private citizens keep their food and fuel and other scarce resources and only confiscate and control corporate or “large retail or wholesale stocks” …

“If you let” citizens keep their property? Next is the delineation between private citizens resources and store owners things, though the “initially” is troubling:

You have to be careful which resources you initially confiscate and only gather large retail or wholesale stocks meant for re-sale. Anything owned by an individual for his own use is his property and must not be touched. Any critical and scarce commodity owned strictly for resale should be confiscated for the common good and held by the community. Make sure you provide a receipt to any owners you can locate or at least keep records of what is taken.

Needing to establish some sort of community stockpile is of course what would be needed long-term, but “ownership” still does exist and there is no point to pretending otherwise:

One of these choices might be to confiscate corporate property and redistribute it as needed for the common good. That specifically includes local merchants who hold stockpiles of needed resources meant for resale, such as gas station and grocery store owners. The whole retail system with [its] complex accounting and “ownership” laws are part of a finance system that no longer exists after a severe EMP event.

This next bit is actually bullshit – my brothers and I own land where we grew up and where we’d (try to) return to in the event of a collapse. We don’t live there, some of it is farmable, so we’re absentee landlords. It is not an “investment” in the finance sense, and anyone trying to take it, or those that did, would be on the receiving end of our hot lead:

Farmable land owned by a absentee landlord is easy; he’s not there and owns it only as an investment, therefore it now belongs to the community.

For this, all I have to say is, and “try it”:

You may also be forced to confiscate privately owned vehicles if yours are damaged or you need specialty vehicles (like fuel tankers, for instance). You need to work out a method of doing this without stealing. Any time you confiscate resources from any private citizen, you need to somehow reimburse them as fairly as possible. A better approach may be to exclusively hire them as the driver and let them retain ownership.

This next bit is fairly cheeky – confiscate these farmers’ property, but hire them to help with the process:

Co-ops and large commercial farms: These may have livestock and large amounts of feed grain and other dried foods on hand. … Seek them out and get their input and help to secure their food. You want to avoid spoilage and loss as much as possible and these people can help. Hire them.

J.I.R. has the right initial notion that communities will need to stockpile food/supplies, provide for rule of law and collective defense, but I think he sets precedents that prime the slippery slope of communism.

Readers of Survival Blog have responded and several letters have been published, and the author of the original article has responded a couple of times;

• Four Letters Re: Community Crisis Planning for Societal Collapse
• Six Letters Re: Community Crisis Planning for Societal Collapse
• Seven Letters Re: Community Crisis Planning for Societal Collapse

Not all disagree with J.I.R. (from the Six Letters);

I completely agree with J.I.R.: Long term, communities (a dirty word to radical individualists) must organize and work together. And so all of a sudden on a survivalist web site like yours, someone has gotten real and is talking about community, the dangers of anarchy, the rule of law, justice, the protection of the weak, and even redistribution of property. In other words, government, the very thing most survivalists demonize the most. This is unavoidable. No guns-based, hyper-individualistic strategy could ever work for long.

That’s why I’m a left-wing survivalist. To me, the key is cooperation and production. Though the old self-reliant American lifestyle was fading when I was a child in the 1950s, the infrastructure and social fabric that supported community-based self-reliance had not yet decayed.

Several replies mentioned the scenario from the excellent book, One Second After and that it was similar. Actually, it was different in the book in that a lot less was confiscated and things were more voluntary. There was a rationing system – you give your stockpile and you get a ration card, otherwise live on what you have. That’s better. But it was also a relatively small community.

Our “retreat” (the family farm, or perhaps “compound”) has enough land and water to grow substance crops for as many as we’ll allow on our property. There is also some game, but my guess is that if there is a real collapse, game will become thin pretty soon.

We plan on having enough for our family and close friends we plan on having here. Probably some won’t make it there (including me and my family), probably some we’d rather not have there will show up. Probably more than planned for, which is sort of figured into planning; it’ll be very hard.

My family, I’m sure, would not allow any land, vehicle, fuel, livestock, or other property to be confiscated. We’d be well armed, including scoped long-range rifles, and with a plan to defend. As J.I.R. notes (Six Letters);

Without some kind of redistribution of scarce resources and a working police department, nobody’s property is off limits. Most of the people in the community are going to be hungry very fast. Nobody just sits down and starves to death. They are going to attempt to find food or whatever their family needs. Hungry people loot.

That’s true. However, for most places, that will happen regardless. There will be too many people, not enough food. Period. And there is no way to help everyone, it just cannot be done (unless you have stored truly vast quantities of supplies, which is highly unlikely for most) without jeopardizing the lives of your own family or group.

Scope Mounts for the Mosin Nagant

Update 12 Dec 2011: Nutnfancy has a review of the BrassStacker mount for the Mosin Nagant. The BrassStacker is for long-eye relief scopes but allows for use of irons sights out to 100 yards. It’s much cheaper than going the bent bolt route, but I still prefer that method.

Update 30 Nov 2011: My brothers and I have purchased four JMeck see-through scope mounts. We plan to install at least a couple of these over the Christmas holiday season. Expect a post in January reviewing these mounts!

Original Post: So you’ve picked up a Mosin Nagant for an excellent price and the next step is to put a scope on this hi-powered rifle. The 7.62.54R falls in between the .308 (7.62×51) and the .30-06 (7.62×63), and is also similar to .303 British (7.7x56mmR). This rifle is perfect for hunting and long-range shooting – it’s practically begging to be scoped.

Unfortunately, the Mosin Nagant wasn’t really designed to be scoped and the options available will in most cases cost more than the rifle, even before purchasing the actual optic. Some of the solutions involve drilling and tapping the rifle, which can be difficult if you don’t have the right tools or are uncomfortable with potentially marring your firearm.

Overall there are two basic options; the “scout” mount, which is forward on the rifle and uses a long eye relief (LER) scope similar to those used on pistols, or the traditional location over the bolt using standard scopes. Both have their pros and cons.

Scout Mount
This is the easiest and least expensive of the two options, but means you must 1) remove the rear sight assembly and 2) use a LER scope (though this might be an acceptable option if you wear eyeglasses). These are both cons for me since I like having see-thru mounts that allow the use of iron sights as a backup, and I don’t really care for LER scopes. If you don’t care about either of those things, you’ve found your solution and are set.

There are a few options here. There are several systems where part of the rear sight is removed and a mounting system, usually with a weaver/picatinny rail, are installed (photos). This allows for standard mounts to be used and a wide variety of appropriate LER scopes.

Some have noted that if the entire rear sight assembly is removed on a 91/30 Mosin Nagant, 3/8” male dovetail grooves are revealed, the same as on modern .22 rifles and airguns. This means you can purchase some cheap but still quality 1” rings for about $10 and mount a scope. However, you’ll have to work to get the sight assembly removed:

[There are] two pins holding the sight base on, and they usually have a dab of solder on the base to dovetail. Gentle heating with a small torch to melt the solder, then tap the base forward and it comes right off.

Besides not needing to drill/tap any holes in your rifle, another pro is that you can retain the straight bolt.

S&K Scope Mounts offers a product for this (though the ordering method looks cumbersome), as does Tick Bite Supply.

Traditional Mount
Scopes mounted in the normal fashion are, to me and many others, simple easier to use. In most cases removing the scope allows the use of iron sights, another pro. However, to use a scope in this position the straight bolt on the Mosin Nagant must be bent. Right out of the gates that’s an expense.

There are some kits that include the bent bolt or part for modifying it. Personally I don’t have the tools required and don’t want to take a chance at mutilating my rifle. The most popular kit is from ATI; it includes a rail that must be drilled/tapped and part of a bolt that also requires machining. It doesn’t have very good reviews.

This brings up the bolt. The Mosin Nagant has a straight bolt that comes up right into the space a traditionally mounted scope would be. The only solution for a scope mounted there is to have the bolt bent or in someway modified for the same effect. From all I’ve read, one of the best sources for getting this done is a vendor who goes by “The Boltman.”

Another option is what the Soviets used for their sniper rifles, which is a left-side mounted (drilled/tapped) plate that comes up for the scope mount. This still requires the bent bolt.

There are a few companies that make custom mounts for the Mosin Nagant (again, need a bent bolt to use them).

• Jmeck – I like this one because it’s a see-thru mount and doesn’t require any drilling/tapping. Seems to have a good reputation on the various forums, and there is a You Tube video of the mount installation by a customer.
• Rock Solid Industries – This looks like a well made product that will fit the bill. They note it’s low profile, and offer bolts (higher cost than Boltman, however). Cannot use iron sights.
• Advanced Rifle Parts – This mount attaches to the rear sight assembly to provide the traditional scope placement, and also seems well made. Cannot use iron sights.
• Tick Bite Supply – Offers several options, including the scout type mounts described above, and a hideous tactical tri-rail mount that is just wrong for a Mosin Nagant.

Conclusion
The scout mount is much less expensive and is probably easier to implement, while the Jmeck mount seems to be what I’d prefer (though the mount would cost more than a new rifle and the bolt would need to be bent on top of that, all before purchasing the scope!).

Though I don’t care for the scout setup, I may consider it for my Mosin Nagant due to cost concerns. Perhaps I can get used to it and even prefer it for a high powered rifle, but it’ll be a few months before I need to decide anything.

AR-15 Alternatives: Mini-14 and SU-16C

In Thinking Through Bug Out Firearms, I suggested criteria for choosing weapons you might want to have if bugging out. My personal choice was for a carbine in 5.56mm or 7.62x39mm rather than a battle rifle. At the time I was leaning toward the (still) yet to be released to the public SIG516, and decided against the AK platform.

The SIG516, an improved AR clone, was featured in American Rifleman and was pretty impressive. I’m not a fan of gas-impingement systems and the SIG516 is a gas piston operated AR, so all the better. I’ve fired the M-16 and like the design well enough, but am not a dedicated fan. Reliability, accuracy, durability, and feel are all important to me, and let’s not forget price.

The AR of course has a well established reputation for reliability problems. Rabid AR fans will argue about the reliability issue, saying the weapon is reliable if properly cleaned, or if regularly lubricated. To me those are loser arguments; give me AK reliability with no caveats. From what I’ve read, the relatively dirty gas impingement ARs just cannot deliver that level of reliability, but cleaner gas piston operated systems like the SIG516 seem to be able to.

While waiting around for the SIG516 to come out (read someplace that might be December 2010, but might be later), I rediscovered the Ruger Mini-14. I say rediscovered since of course I’ve been aware of it for years, but never took it seriously due to its notorious accuracy problems and very expensive magazines (over $100 for a 30-round, at one time). It did have a tough-as-nails durability/AK-like reliability reputation (gas piston based on the M-14, bolt system based on the Garand), but why pay twice as much as an AK for the same accuracy?

But something changed around 2005-2006 – Ruger finally upgraded the pencil thin barrel and now has a thicker, tapered barrel that, by most accounts, has eliminated the accuracy problems. This improved the well known Ranch model, and a Tactical model with slightly shorter barrel and flash suppressor was added to the line-up. The newer models have serial numbers beginning with 580 and 581.

Nutnfancy has an excellent review where he puts up a Mini-14 Tactical against an AR-15 and an AK-74. The Mini-14 more than holds its own (first part in a series);

Having found the Mini-14 option right under my nose, I took a second look at another rifle I hadn’t paid much attention to, the Kel-Tec SU-16 series, specifically the SU-16C. This rifle is also in 5.56mm, but has a polymer frame, is gas-piston operated, an under-folding stock (can be fired in this configuration), and uses standard AR magazines.

This rifle has real appeal as a Bug out Bag (BoB) weapon that can fit right into the bag. Using AR magazines is a real bonus, since those magazines are plentiful and cheap. From all I’ve read, it’s very ergonomic and accurate. While it is gas piston operated, it hasn’t been around for long enough to judge overall relatively.

Again, Nutnfacny has an excellent review of the SU-16C (and, again, is a series, so watch them all);

If you do a few searches, you’ll find a lot of opinions out there about the Mini-14 and the SU-16C. Unfortunately, a lot of those opinions are grossly uninformed. Some are have never fired a Mini-14 or are completely unaware of the improved versions, but will still talk trash. Some will do the same about the SU-16C because it has a polymer frame and is so inexpensive (relatively).

In both cases they may be talked poorly about because they aren’t ARs. The AR is a fine weapon, but AR snobs have issues admitting any other rifle compares. You’ll have to sift through reviews and message threads to find input from those who’ve actually fired the weapons or who are judging fairly based on all information available.

As mentioned at the beginning of this post, I have a few criteria for judging between platforms, based on many hours of sifting through comments, reports, and reviews from those who’ve used one or more of these rifles;

• Reliability: Mini-14 comes out on top, AR gas piston models next, and not enough information to rate the SU-16C yet.
• Durability: Mini-14 again, followed by the AR. The SU-16C is polymer so probably won’t hold up as well over time.
• Accuracy: More expensive ARs have the edge here, while the newer Mini-14s will be on par or better to the lower end ARs. The SU-16C likely is at least equal to the Mini-14 in this category (better than the older Minis though).
• Price: The SU-16C can be had in the $550-600 range, the Mini-14 for $600-800, and AR gas piston operated models for $800+. ARs generally also require additional sights.
• Feel/Style: This is completely subjective. I like them all, but prefer the “real rifle” feel of the Mini-14.
• Magazines: AR magazines (aluminum) are cheaper and lighter, and go for $10 and up. On the other hand, Mini-14 magazines (steel) are heavier but stronger and go for $20 and up. Advantage AR.
• Parts: AR hands down. There is a nascent Mini-14 parts/upgrade market, but the AR market is very well established.
• Field Stripping: There are all reported to be easy, with the SU-16C perhaps to a slight disadvantage.

I think the SU-16C is a good choice, especially if you need or really want a rifle that will fit into a backpack or other small space. And for those most comfortable with the AR platform, no reason not to go that way.

But after going through all of this over the past several months, my group is planning standardizing on the Mini-14. We were going to wait on the $1,300 MSRP SIG516, but with the Mini-14s improved accuracy and decades proven relativity and durability – at half the price of the SIG516 – the decision practically made itself.

How Will You Live Post-TEOTWAWKI?

This post details why I believe a balanced approach to developing survival skills and assets is absolutely critical.

Probably most survivalists actively prepping have an idealized notion of how they will fare in a post-TEOTWAWKI environment. Primarily that their efforts will allow for relative safety and comfort for the prepper and companions, and maybe even giving to charity.

The flip side of that is not starving to death or dying from exposure, and not being murdered and/or raped, and so on. I prefer to look at it from the flip side because it keeps me focused. I dwell on it. Some might argue the possibility of a major societal collapse is too remote to worry about, but IMO it’s a low probability, high risk issue worth planning for.

Unfortunately the ideal of surviving comfortably will be shattered for a lot of folks if they focus too heavily on one area at the neglect of another. Looking at the survival spectrum, the zone to aim for is the center. In a sense the center of the survivals spectrum, like the political spectrum is a place of compromise, since a definite balance is there that for most requires a conscious effort to achieve.

Why do I say the center is so critical? If you focus on sustainability, or the left in this spectrum, you will not be prepared to defend yourself or others – you will be, relatively, defenseless. I see a lot of blogs focusing on ensuring food production and related skills are well developed, but no mention of defense or security issues. It’s possible some of those bloggers are squared away concerning security and don’t mention it, but it’s not very likely.

On the other hand, some focus almost exclusively on obtaining a an array of firearms and stockpiling ammunition, the right side of the spectrum, devoting vast amounts of time to studying military tactics, etc. Perhaps these survivalists believe they will be able to easily hunt or plant crops. But it is in fact more difficult than just putting some seeds in the ground, and my guess is that after TSHTF wild game will become very scarce in areas with even a modest population. And you can’t eat bullets. An example of under prepared preppers is the, “Brass Horde” – a very good read.

One potential, and perhaps likely, outcome is that those focusing on sustainability to the neglect of security have set themselves up to become prey (to both prepared survivalist and the “Golden Horde” of starving people), while those with weapons but not food production skills have steered themselves into the role of predator. It doesn’t have to be that way, however, since those with the firepower and knowledge to use it could arrange to become security for those with the food production skill set. Obviously that leaves puts those with firepower in the dominant position.

Of course some plan to be predators from the beginning and they are perhaps the most dangerous. For example, a reader of Survival Blog sent in his essay, which was basically on how he plans to loot his local area. James Rawles, editor of Survival Blog, apparently posted the letter to his site as an example of what we will face post-TEOTWAWKI.

Speaking of societal collapse, a co-worker once told me he has a weapon and ammunition, and so doesn’t need to do anything beyond that; his plan is to take what he needs if there is a collapse. I now make it a point to never discuss details of prepping with those I don’t trust deeply. On one hand it’s good to try to introduce the subject to some so that they may realize the potential for trouble and begin to prepare, but on the other it’s dangerous to give away that you may have food and weapons stockpiled. I recommend erring on the side of caution.

No preppers want to become prey and probably the vast majority don’t want to be forced to become predators. The answer is to balance your preparations and become a centrist survivalist.